What if Rhaenyra Targaryen was never born

Why did Stannis keep the title of Prince of Dragonstone after Joffrey was born?

Before Joffrey was born, Stannis was actually Robert's heir.

However, Joffrey's birth changed the order, but Robert never revoked the title from Stannis.

In addition, Stannis was never referred to as the Prince of the Dragonstone, despite technically holding the same position. The appendix of the AGOT styles of Stannis as Lord of Dragonstone:

his brothers:

  • STANNIS BARATHEON, Lord of Dragonstone,
  • his wife, LADY SELYSE from Haus Florent,
  • her daughter SHIREEN, a nine year old girl,
  • RENLY BARATHEON, Lord of Storms End,

Note that both Renly and Stannis are referred to as Lords. Targaryen princes who owned land were always "Prince of X", e.g. B. Prince Baelor Breakspear was Prince of Dragonstone while his younger brother Prince Maekar was Prince of Summerhall.

George never said Stannis was the Prince of Dragonstone. George merely said that he had been confirmed in the capacity of the heir and appointed Lord of the Dragonstone.

You may also want to note that the mere birth of an heir apparent to a king does not automatically make him the Prince or Princess of Dragonstone. There is a special ceremony for this. An example is Rhaenyra Targaryen, although she was born before her father inherited the throne.

In 105 AC, her mother finally gave birth to the son the king and queen longed for, but the queen died in childbirth, and the boy - called Baelon - only survived her by a day. At this point, Viserys I was heartily fed up with the succession to be cursed at , and in disregard of the precedents of 92 A.D. And the great council of 101 AD He officially declared that Rhaenyra was Princess of Dragonstone and was his heir.A grand ceremony was arranged with hundreds of lords kneeling to pay homage to the princess while she sat at her father's feet . Prince Daemon was not among them.
TWOIAF-Targaryen Kings: Viserys I.

In addition, not all Crown Princes have the PoDS title. Aenys Targaryen never held the title, but was nonetheless his father's heir. Joffrey's case is similar to that of Aenys. The term Prince of Dragonstone originated from the replacement Maegor Targaryen. Aenys was with his father in the Red Fort, while the younger prince stayed with his mother in Dragonstone and became known as the Prince of Dragonstone. Maegor wasn't Aegon I's heir, Aenys was.

The half-brothers were never close. Prime Aenys was the obvious heir, and King Aegon kept him close by his side. When the king moved from castle to castle through the empire, so did the prince. Prince Maegor stayed with his mother and sat by her side when she held court. Queen Visenya and King Aegon were often separated during these years. If he was not on his royal advance, Aegon would return to Kings Landing and the Aegonfort, while Visenya and her son stayed on Dragonstone. Because of this, Lords and Commons alike referred to Maegor as the Prince of Dragonstone .
The sons of the dragon

Even after the birth of Prince Aegon in Aenys, Maegor kept the title PoDS. When Maegor was exiled, Aenys only then bestowed the title on his heir.

Aenys seemed content to leave the matter with Maegor's exile, but the High Septon was still not happy. Not even the appointment of the supposed miracle worker Septon Murmison as Aenys' new hand could completely repair the break with the faith. And in AD 41 Aenys made matters worse when he decided to have his eldest daughter Rhaena with his son and heir Aegon to marry whom he called Prince of Dragonstone in Maegor's place.
TWOIAF-Targaryen Kings: Aenys I.

Apart from them, monarchs like Aerys I and Aegon V never held this title either, but their successor was due to unforeseen circumstances. Let's ignore that. And of course we also have Prince Daeron (Maekar's heir) who preferred to be referred to as the Prince of Summerhall rather than the Prince of Dragonstone because he hated the place and called it "a gloomy place to stay".

The fact that Joffrey did not own Dragonstone did not bother the nobles. Even Robb admitted that Joffrey and Tommen were still the rightful heirs to the throne even when the North and the Crown were at war.

"You cannot mean to hold onto Joffrey, my lord," said Galbart Glover. "He killed your father."

"That makes him angry," Robb replied. "I don't know that it makes Renly king. Joffrey is still Robert's eldest trueborn son, so the throne is right to be his under all the laws of the empire . If he died, and I want to see him do, he has a younger brother. Tommen is next behind Joffrey. "
AGOT-Catelyn XI

Not to mention that Robert had reservations about Joffrey's succession, which he voiced to Ned, claiming that Ned didn't know the boy like Robert, and the only thing that kept him from abdicating was the thought of Joffrey on the throne while Cersei whispered in his ear.

"Let me tell you a secret, Ned. I've dreamed of giving up the crown more than once. Take a ship for the Free Cities with my horse and my hammer, spend my time with war and whores, that's what I'm made for. The Selling sword king, how singers would love me. You know what's stopping me? The thought of Joffrey on the throne while Cersei stands behind him and whispers in his ear. My son. How could I have made a son like that, Ned? " "

"He's just a boy," said Ned awkwardly. He had a little fondness for Prince Joffrey, but he could hear the pain in Robert's voice. "Did you forget how wild you were at his age?"

"I wouldn't mind if the boy was wild, Ned. You don't know him like I do." He sighed and shook his head.

Even so, Dragonstone's meaning, symbolic as it was, practically ceased to exist when Robert Rhaegar's chest collapsed at the Ruby Ford.

So TLDR, Robert probably didn't revoke the title from his brother because:

  1. Robert was not interested in traditions and laws.
  2. Robert mistrusted Joffrey.
  3. PoDS had no meaning in the new area.
  4. It is not necessary for a prince to hold the title.
  5. Many Targaryen monarchs and their heirs did not hold the title either.
  6. Stannis never held the title of Prince of Dragonstone.


In addition, Stannis was not only Lord of Dragonstone, but also Master of Ships. Another title to be replaced if you remove Stannis from Dragonstone


@Kepotx Landless nobles can be on the King'c Council. Aurane Waters was Tommen's ship master. He didn't own any land. If DS is withdrawn by Stannis, he will not be automatically dismissed from the council