How can I learn SEO and Marketing

Learn SEO: How can I implement search engine optimization myself?

Benjamin: Today we are talking about how to learn search engine optimization, namely the end of the classic offline workshops and we would like to talk a bit about the training market, how it is developing from our point of view, yes with our thesis that the classic online workshops that Offline workshops, so now I've said it correctly, will be pushed aside. # 00: 00: 41-7 #

Fabian: Yes exactly. # 00: 00: 42-7 #

B: That's kind of the topic. A steep thesis, perhaps, no? But maybe there is something to it too. But Fabian, we used to do offline workshops ourselves and they also have some really acidic disadvantages. We'll talk about them in a moment. But say again beforehand, who actually goes to such workshops? Are they the experienced search engine optimizers, or what is your memory like? # 00: 01: 07-4 #

Q: Yes, never not at all. So the people who signed up for our workshops were online marketing managers very often, or managing directors, solo preneurs, i.e. everyone who really works hands-on on their rankings and somehow in practice, yes this one Wanted to develop the topic further for themselves or wanted to develop it first, i.e. beginners or builders, we always say people who want to build Google rankings. But there were very seldom times that, where I would say now, okay, someone who was really top level and then really wanted to discuss some technical questions at a high level. That happened too and that was cool too, but as a rule these were a little different group of people than the one we might have imagined at the beginning, who then comes. # 00: 01: 57-3 #

B: Exactly, so we always had SEO managers with us who also said, yes, I'm actually only in the workshop now because I finally wanted to do something with you and all that (laughs) and a lot of them, they just had a lot of other topics on the table and marketing managers, yes? # 00: 02: 13-4 #

Q: If I slide in there now, because that is a bit of a flashy subject that we have, but it was always extremely upset, so I have to say. That was, these SEO seminars, we started with them because we wanted to do that too, to get in contact with people, because people asked us, when do you do something like that, that always made a lot of fun. But the prerequisites or the omens are simply different now, no. # 00: 02: 36-4 #

B: Yes, exactly, and it's not the case that you just do a simple online workshop, we'll talk about that in a moment, but first of all the signs for the offline workshops have really changed quite a bit. # 00: 02: 47-5 #

Lack of predictability

Q: Yes, do you mean now because of Corona, or what? # 00: 02: 50-1 #

B: Exactly, I think that's a bit the most obvious, it can be dealt with very quickly, so there are even more problems in there. But I think you just don't have any reasonable predictability at all. Not already in 2020, 2021 will continue seamlessly. What do you want now, yes we do the workshop, do an offline workshop in March or in June or in autumn, it’s definitely better, or how. And if not, then not, then it collapses. # 00: 03: 17-9 #

Q: Yes, someone coughs and then you go with or not. # 00: 03: 22-2 #

B: Exactly, eight or ten people sit in a closed room and then you ventilate from me like in schools every twenty minutes with a ventilation plan or no idea what. But what about then, then a person has a cough the night before or a runny nose. Should she go into the workshop room now or should she get out now. Perhaps she has already arrived by plane and hotel and all the trimmings. Then there are some people who are vaccinated and others are Corona critics or I don't know what and then you have yes. So you talk about all sorts of things, but definitely not about search engine optimization. And # 00: 03: 57-8 #

Q: Our participants are not lateral thinkers. # 00: 04: 00-6 #

B: Yes, but it is, it is simple, you can no longer really plan, you simply can no longer plan sensibly and that is what just bothers me. # 00: 04: 11-1 #

Q: I think that is now also a simple argument to put forward this Corona argument, but I also think it came before Corona, so problems arose for us, even before Corona, which I think these workshops really questioned . And that was ultimately the reason why we stopped doing workshops at that time, because this effort and this planning also pissed us off, wasn't it? # 00: 04: 36-7 #

Events? It often doesn't fit

Q: Yes, that was, you always have to commit to fixed dates, yes. And if possible, half a year or a year in advance, because you also have to book the rooms and vice versa, those who were with us in the offline workshops, of course, also wanted to know what's going on in three, six or twelve months. And I have to say quite honestly, also from the customer's point of view, I visit myself or have already attended workshops on other topics. And I always have the problem when I wanted to book a workshop, an offline workshop that I had before Corona, and then I always said, yes I can't on the weekend, or I can't on Thursday, Friday . So and uh, that's far away. So a lot of people search locally because they also have to organize the whole trip, overnight stay, family, everything has to be organized and that's just what I found always exhausting at these offline workshops per se. # 00: 05: 33-9 #

Q: Well, I think we somehow did four or five workshops, every time someone from Switzerland was there. I thought that was awesome too, with the plane and then to the hotel. # 00: 05: 44-5 #

B: Or Munich, from Munich to Cologne. # 00: 05: 46-5 #

Q: Yes, or someone was from Munich and then you always think, blatant, then yes, yes, we also flew out the other day, yesterday and we spend another night in Cologne and then go, that's not two Days, that's four days, which are often spent on it. There is a huge commitment where you do nothing other than just a workshop. # 00: 06: 05-7 #

B: Exactly and then it's four days and then the managing director comes with his employee, with his marketing employee or two product managers, so to speak, they are sent to our workshop by the managing director. These are all situations that existed. That is, that's four days, but two people. So it's already eight person-days that are spent on it. And that's just a lot of effort, and it's not without reason that people often say, yes, I would really like to, but I won't do it now. But there is still / # 00: 06: 40-6 #

Q: But then I still speak, so sorry, but to finish it off, but then I really talk to someone, I think the third, fourth workshop and he actually says, yes I would have gotten into the first and I would be in the second, me would have come in the third, but I didn't get a plane to come to you on the dates. Yes, I think to myself, it can't be, because of course we thought about it, yes why, then you didn't get the full course, why is that and we didn't advertise enough and so. And then you hear from someone, yes, I would have loved to come, but the date somehow didn't fit. Little things that ultimately get stuck that you can't work with people. # 00: 07: 21-5 #

B: I think that was always annoying about these offline workshops. But there are others, I say, yes, problems or just like that, I think that's just like you go to this workshop, it was always super cool. We did that in Cologne in a seminar room from a converted courtyard, it was a brewery and then we went in the evening, we still sat out there together and kind of had a really nice chat, that was really cool. But everyone said afterwards, wow and then you come home and then to the office and then all the things that you should have done in the two or three days are left lying around. You have to rework that first. Then you have, so to speak, you have to do it somehow, do you want to implement it. Then you sign up for a tool and think to yourself, where do I click on it. So oh man And how was that again, what did we discuss again in the workshop there, do you look into your notes and think to yourself, I can only decipher half of it, so maybe. A lot of people simply lost the thread. We always thought that was a shame. Some of them worked really straight through. Said, completed point one, point two. We always have your to-do's, we always had worksheets and there were also many who said that it was really difficult to stay on the ball. # 00: 08: 49-6 #

Q: Yes, we tried to intercept a bit. What I also found really cool didactically, so I think that because you are also a lecturer at the university and you also deal a lot with didactics, we already had a lot of things that we also so soft things that we do with have sprinkled purely so that it doesn't happen so quickly. But even there we got the feedback afterwards, that somehow got lost in everyday life and so on. As you say, I just thought it was a shame. Because those were so exciting projects, where we always saw so much potential and that you still don't really get it on the road, I thought that was a shame, exactly. # 00: 09: 30-1 #

Often too much theory

B: Now the third point, now I have to do a little, I really am, you already mentioned it, I am also a lecturer myself, I don't like the term lecturer at all, so then I am a lecturer on my own terms. # 00: 09: 42-8 #

Q: Let's say Professor O'Daniel. # 00: 09: 44-9 #

B: (laughs) Yes, exactly. And I was already in my studies, I was already a tutor, so it kind of runs through my professional career. But I also really enjoy doing it and always give myself a lot of thought. Before we worked together, I also worked on and built up this entire online area, so to speak, for a training provider. So that's always been a topic that occupies me a lot. And one topic that is just annoying to me and I want to throw that in here now and that there are a lot of training providers who just do workshops and SEO seminars. And these training providers are, if you will, brands. But who is actually the teacher behind it, you can always see that on all these seminar announcements, there is somehow a sentence about it. Yes, this is so and so or the woman so and so and she is an expert in there. Yes, really, okay and why is she doing five other seminars with you on completely different topics. And why so yes, that's the way it is, it doesn't work at all, the attraction, so to speak, arises from the provider of the further training, from the organization above, so to speak, and not from the lecturer. And how the quality is then, the actual quality behind it, I sometimes have the impression that it doesn't really play a big role and that I just find that a general weakness in many workshops. That was not the case with us, because we ourselves are, so to speak, the knowledge carriers, who then simply, we organized the workshop ourselves. We then called and said, yes, how much does the seminar room cost. # 00: 11: 29-6 #

Q: What does the cake cost, exactly. # 00: 11: 31-0 #

B: Exactly what does the cake cost, if we want cake (laughs). "Really, you want cake after lunch?" "Yes, we want cake!" Of course, we need enough coffee and the coffee has to taste good and so. We took care of it ourselves, but so to speak, the normal continuing education landscape just looks different and that, I just sometimes doubt the quality, to put it in a friendly manner. # 00: 11: 56-8 #

Q: Well I mean, you can, that will be better and worse a bit. So, maybe to make it a little plastic now. What I do, when I look at the agendas and what is then discussed, I personally totally lack practical relevance, so not totally, but mostly. So, when I look at that, it also starts in the area of ​​SEO marketing, yes the basics of search engine optimization, the ranking algorithms and then all the algorithms are somehow put on the table and then point two, so it's like a master's thesis , Point one, point two, the Google Core Updates and then from stick to stick, Wikipedia knowledge is often simply processed and presented and so, and I can imagine that after five minutes you just don't feel like it anymore to pull in. Because that's all well and good to know then, but what does that help me. In everyday practice, when I think of our workshops and the participants who sat there, there were people who wanted to, who had a project at hand, They had their Google Analytics for SEO on and said, how do I get on now, how do I get traffic in here now. And they would certainly have scolded immediately if I had said, so now let's go through the history of Google Updates for two hours. Yes, because that wouldn't help, so I think. And I see it quite often, that just because people come there who may not be the SEO consultants, you don't have to do this basic work with them, they can buy a book. The boss sends them there to make sales and to bring traffic. They have a clear mission, these workshops often cost a lot of money and there is the clear mission that when you come back, I want it to pay off in money at some point. And I often don't see that when I look into these time tables. # 00: 13: 45-8 #

B: Yes, I think so too. So you have now mixed two levels, the technical and the didactic. No, I think that's good, it's just like that, it also happens once in a while, so to speak, they are very close to each other. One thing is the technical, the lack of practical relevance, if you will. So to talk about the last thirty Google updates, you can really read it that way. But to say how is your domain, you throw it live into a tool in order to then analyze the ranking live, for example, you have to be a lot more grounded for that. So, that's kind of like when everything is too theory-heavy. And the other is, I think, on the didactic level this frontal teaching. So then you are in front or we are not, but this is how a classic bad workshop works in my opinion, when everything is always presented in front, so to speak, what is it, what is it, what is it. You can really read it through . So what did I get on the plane for and sacrificed four person-days, so to speak. Sure, of course then, now I've committed myself to dealing with it properly now. That's why you often go to such an offline workshop. But then, in terms of content, you really have to get the most out of it. # 00: 15: 16-4 #

Q: Yes, but didactically you also go a little bit towards this interactive component, which is then missing. # 00: 15: 26-2 #

B: Exactly, yes. # 00: 15: 26-0 #

Q: Well, it's not just about, I can tell you everything head-on that is important in relation to Google. So and then you go out and say, okay, now I've got it all, somehow it got into my ear, but I don't know for sure whether it got stuck in my brain. This is not how it works with learning search engine optimization. But the interactive thing you just said is ultimately that you say, okay, I'll teach you this using a search engine optimization example, so that you can adapt it directly for yourself. And that's where the technical merges into the didactic and that thinks, that's probably what you wanted, I guess, right? So in relation to frontal teaching. # 00: 16: 02-2 #

B: Yes, that's a bit like the starting point for classic offline workshops. And if we look into the online area, so to speak, in which it is developing, then you see different forms, all of them like that, they are just not quite ripe, they are just emerging. # 00: 16: 22-4 #

Q: We can start with the classic online courses, so video tutorial. # 00: 16: 26-2 #

Online SEO courses often go above and beyond the crowd

B: Exactly, the classic, one-to-one adaptation, so to speak, transferred to the Internet, that's what you see frequently in all areas now anyway.Yes, then, so to speak, the PowerPoint battle with the whole theory bunch will begin, will be included in, so to speak, and made available somewhere, as an online course and said: This means learning SEO marketing. Yes, these are pure video recordings and when I look at them, I just can't help myself, I look at that and think to myself, so I have to go through that now. Welcome, by the way, that is also the case with all these LinkedIn courses, yes it is, welcome to the so-and-so course. Today I will tell you how you rank better. It's a complex topic (laughs). Oh god, so yes, point one. So you have to, that's not it and then I'll just keep hitting it. And then it is said, yes, we not only recorded twenty videos for you, but forty or sixty or eighty. So then, so to speak, more and more is poured on it, as if that were the topic. # 00: 17: 42-7 #

Q: Is that good or does it sound like a threat (laughs). # 00: 17: 44-6 #

B: Yes exactly, then you think like that, oh god, I have to do eighty videos and each video is three quarters of an hour long. # 00: 17: 51-0 #

Q: But my course has 81 videos. # 00: 17: 54-8 #

B: Exactly, this is how differentiation is made, so to speak. # 00: 17: 57-4 #

F: (unv.) Goes to eleven. Exactly. # 00: 18: 00-0 #

B: And I think so, so you can already see it, it's obvious, we're not that happy with it, but maybe we just looked at the wrong online course. So feel free to send us online courses that you think are cool. But somehow it's not. # 00: 18: 17-3 #

Q: Yes, and you can't interact with it either. # 00: 18: 18-9 #

B: No, you can't either, exactly. Yes, I have a question. Yes and now chapter two. That's right. And that's the other thing we see. The second is, I think, real live workshops. We think they are a lot cooler, we do them too, but tell Fabian. # 00: 18: 39-0 #